Babbler's Den: Re: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations

From: testimprove <bonnerentree2003@yahoo.fr>
To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 3:46 pm

hi,

" r : s correspond to s/(r + s)"

could you give us concret examples using numbers?

------------------

I am not a gambler. I cited a definition from an encyclopedia.

Gamblers are not known to be forthcoming in the offering of help in explaining the rules of gambling. [It gives away advantage.] If a gambler would like to prove this wrong, at least in his or her case, by all means, feel free to share.

My purpose in citing the definition was to point to a formula that was posited as implied in that part of the definition of ratio that addresses 'betting odds.' I imagine from the looks of the formula that the use of it is simply a matter of subsitution.

If the "odds against" are 5:2, then r = 5 and s = 2. The fractional form as determined by the formula would be 2 / (5 + 2) = 2 / 7. I suspect that if a horse is rated as having a 2 out of 7 chance of winning, it would pay $5 for every $2 bet.

I used a search engine to look for "betting odds" and found a website for betting on sports. After a quick search (very quick--I'm not into gambling), I could not even find odds expressed with the use of a colon (:). I imagine that the odds are there in the site somewhere, but I didn't find them. (big site).

I added "horse racing" to the search and found a site with a glossary. Then I found the definition for "odds against." If my example is right, then I'm right. If it's not, I'm open to correction.

I don't feel terribly comfortable writing about this. Gambling is an addictive pastime for some people and a little knowledge can be very dangerous. Some of the gamblers that I knew only talked about the times when they "won." Gambling as a business industry makes money, because there are many people who lose money and only very few who win big. Use information on gambling with caution.

Thanks,
sbk

-----Original Message-----
From: testimprove <bonnerentree2003@yahoo.fr>
To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 3:46 pm

hi,

" r : s correspond to s/(r + s)"

could you give us concret examples using numbers?

Buck Dick gave examples related to "ratio"

." "20:5 = 20/5 = 4; 15 lb: 3 lb = 5."

Regards

Badriya

--- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, Sbkidde@... wrote:
>
> Who would a' thunk it? So much commentary on the mathematical conception of ratio!
>
> Interesting thread.
>
> Just to add to the field of consideration is a definition from the "_CRC Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics: 2d Ed._" Eric Weisstein, CRC Press, 2003, p.2495
>
> Ratio
> The ratio of two numbers r and s is written r/s, where r is the numerator and s is the denominator. The ratio of r to s is equivalent to the quotient r/s. Betting odds written as
> r : s correspond to s/(r + s). A number which can be expressed as a ratio of integers is called a rational number.
>
> --------------------
>
> This thread's focus on ration is quite important as fractions continue to maintain something of an unpopular status in the student population. Fractions are, nevertheless, very practical and calculators have not negated the practicality of the expression. A college professor called fractions "more precise" than decimals.
>
> If we think of numeric comparisons in addition and subtraction, subtraction is used to find the difference between two numbers. A ratio is a numeric comparison that uses division. When a non-algebraic expression without an equals sign (=)Â has been reduced to two numbers with a colon (:), it suggests a simplified form.Â
>
> When the colon is used in betting odds, as the definition above shows, aÂ more complicate form of divisionÂ is implied as indicated by the general algebraic form, s/(r + s).
>
> sbk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Buck Dick kcubar34@...
> To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 9:44 am
> Subject: Re: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Brian and Vinaire,
>
> Â
>
> From "The Universal Encyclopedia of Mathematics," Simon and Schuster, 1964:
>
> Â
>
> "The RATIO of two quantities a and b is their quotient a:b = a/b.Â We read "a to b" or "a over b".Â If a:b = m, m is referred to as the VALUE of the RATIO.Â Two quantities, in order to posess a RATIO must be either PURE NUMBERS or MEASURES OF THE SAME TYPE. e.g. 20:5 = 20/5 = 4; 15 lb: 3 lb = 5.Â The VALUE of the RATIO (PROPORTIONALITY FACTOR) is always a pure number."
>
> Â
>
> So, please (as Vinaire as indicated) don't confuse a RATIO with a RATE (different measures) or a RATIONAL NUMBER.
>
> Â
>
> I have no idea whose websites those are, but I will bet they are not edited by mathematicians if they allow a RATIO to have different units, as in 2000 miles: 40 hours.
>
> Â
>
> Buck Dick
>
> Brian Edward Jensen brianejensen@... wrote:
>
>
>
> As usual I disagree with you.
>
> First website I found
>
> http://www.mathleague.com/help/ratio/ratio.htm
>
> gives ratios with different units, defines proportion, and says rate
> involves time.
>
> Second website I found
>
> http://www.math.com/school/subject1/lessons/S1U2L1GL.html
>
> gives ratios with different units
>
> Third website I found
>
> http://www.purplemath.com/modules/ratio.htm
>
> gives ratios with different units
>
> The "Understanding" of others is often made up nonsense. What is
> taught in school is not reliable. Let's get some websites to back up
> information.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brian
>
> --- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, Vinaire vinaire@ wrote:
> >
> > I think that by "Rationnel" you mean a rational number. A number
> and units are two different things. A rational number is a number
> that can be expressed as a ratio of two integers.
> >
> > When you compare two quantities of the same unit you have a RATIO.
> When you compare two quantities of different units you have a RATE.
> That is my understanding. Others may clarify it further.
> >
> > PROPORTION simply means two equal ratios.
> >
> > I did not understand what you meant by "et." You seem to be mixing
> some other language with English.
> >
> > I did not understand what you meant by "rapport."
> >
> > DIVISION simply means how many times you can take one quantity out
> of another. It may be looked upon as repeated subtraction. When you
> divide a smaller quantity (number with a unit) by a larger number you
> get fractions.
> >
> > I do not understand the situation where you would divide a number
> by a quantity. Can you give me a practical example of that?
> >
> > Vinaire
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: testimprove bonnerentree2003@
> > To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:20:31 PM
> > Subject: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations
> >
> > Hi,
> > "I am not familiar with some of the symbols and terminology you are
> using"
> > -Which symbols and terminology I use and you are not familiar with?
> > your question :
> > "Were you taught that way in school?"suprised me.
> > I'd like before answering your question to let me know what you
> thing about this way.
> > Badriya
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Math4u@yahoogroups. com, Vinaire <vinaire@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I asked that question because I am not familiar with some of the
> symbols and terminology you are using. Were you taught that way in
> school?
> > >
> > > V.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: testimprove bonnerentree2003@ ...
> > > To: Math4u@yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:54:25 AM
> > > Subject: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > "What country are you from?"
> > >
> > > even I don't know what is the relation between this question and
> the mathematic,I give an answer to your question:
> > >
> > > I am from France
> > >
> > > I wonder if my style in writing English is the purpose of your
> inquiry.
> > >
> > > I have studied Math in French ,and I really will be happy if you
> point out the errors I 'll probably make while typing questions in
> this wonderful forum
> > >
> > > Badriya
> > >
> > > --- In Math4u@yahoogroups. com, Vinaire vinaire@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What country are you from?
> > > >
> > > > Vinaire
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: testimprove bonnerentree2003@ ...
> > > > To: Math4u@yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 5:17:43 PM
> > > > Subject: [Math4u] 4 situations
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to know if it is exact that any Rationnel has 4
> meanings.
> > > >
> > > > Â· example the rationnel 17/6
> > > >
> > > > Â· a) the numbers 17 and 6 are different units for
> > > >
> > > > example 17 liters of milk for making 6 kg of cheese
> > > >
> > > > so liters and kg are two diferent units.Here the
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > fraction17/6 means a proportion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Â· b) 17 et 6 are the same units , for example the
> > > >
> > > > heigth of a triangle is 17mm and the side is 6 mm,
> > > >
> > > > here the fraction 17/6 means a rapport
> > > >
> > > > Â· c) the number 17 is a unit and the number 6
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > deosn't have a unit . For example to cut 17meters in
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 6 equal pieces.Here 17/6 means a divison
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Â· d) The number 17 doesn't have a unit and 1/6
> > > >
> > > > mm,we have 17x1/6 so here 17/6 is a fraction of the 1/6x17
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________
> _________ _________ _________
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> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________
> _________ _________ _________
> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo.
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Sunday, December 23, 2007

Re: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations

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