Friday, November 30, 2007

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Re: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?

A colon (:) has traditionally been used for ratio.

Brian is right.

Vinaire

----- Original Message ----
From: Brian E. Jensen <brianejensen@prodigy.net>
To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:59:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?

It seems like everyone has a different definition of ":"

When you say, "everyone knows" you are implying I am a nobody. When I was in first or second grade, they taught us the story of "The Emperor's Clothes" which has an enormous impact on me.

I believe ":" means ratio such as in similar triangles a:b:c equals d:e:f. I can back this up with the following websites

http://www.pen. k12.va.us/ Div/Winchester/ jhhs/math/ facts/symbol. html

http://www.roma. unisa.edu. au/07305/ symbols.htm# Division

Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.

If you cannot find any websites to justify your definition, then you are not talking a universal language. It sounds narrow minded, but I would like everyone to speak the same language.

Let's say you define the semi colon to mean the horizontal line. In your equation, I wold not know if you wrote this super fraction first and then added the b term later or if the b term is part of the semicolon expression. I think

Princecharming

Rob van Wik

Atadricourses

are using 3 different definitions for the semi colon which are not found on the reputable websites and which I haven't heard of. The only way to change my mind is to produce reputable websites with new definitions for the semi colon.

It is difficult not to believe what we were taught in elementary school. I was taught in elementary school that everyone in Denmark rides bicycles because Denmark is flat. When I got there, it wasn't flat and I didn't see many bicycles.

Regards,

Brian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:45 AM
Subject: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?

There is a big difference between the division symbol and the colon.

Let's take the quadradic equation as an example:

-b+ (the square root of b^2 -4ac):2a

we all know that even though this formula is one big fraction, all operations above and below the fraction are done before dividing.

What would happen written like this?

-b+ (the square root of b^2 -4ac)/2a

If I read / as a division symbol, I would complete all equations under the square root and then divide it by 2a before I complete the addition/subtractio n with the lonely b

regards

PC


--- In Math4u@yahoogroups. com, "Rob van Wijk" <robvanwijk@. ..> wrote:
>
>
> Here's the recap and all solutions for these non-problems:
>
> Order of operations:
> - Plus and minus are at the same priority level (defining minus to be
> higher priority than plus is a cute hack, but since an expression such
> as "1 - 2 - 3 = ??" will still require the additional "in case of same
> precedence, eval from left to right"-rule, it's pretty pointless).
> - Same for multiply and divide.
> - In case of even the slightest possibility of doubt: just add braces,
> then you are *sure* everyone understands! !
>
> Division symbol:
> - In elementary school we were first tought to use the "colon with a dash"
> symbol. Then "just plain colon" was introduced as a "shorthand" for that.
> Later on, in highschool we switched to using a slash. Sorry, can't link
> to a website (or would you like a link to the website of my elementary
> school? :p ).
> - This mailing list is kinda bound to computers. Yes, there *is* a symbol
> for division. However (sparing you the technical details) there are quite
> severe problems with actually using it (as has been demonstrated) . In the
> interest of using a solution that is easy and works universally, in comp.
> sci. we just use a slash for division. May I recommend everyone here also
> follows that convention?
>
> And, to give the long-awaited answer to the original formula:
> (note the use of "^2" instead of "²"; another case of "easy solution that
> just works")
> 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4^2
> == { exponentation }
> 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 16
> == { multiply and divide, left to right, first operator encountered }
> 26 - 7 x 3 + 16
> == { multiply and divide, left to right, second operator encountered }
> 26 - 21 + 16
> == { add and substract, left to right, first operator encountered }
> 5 + 16
> == { add and substract, left to right, second operator encountered }
> 21
>
> Google calculator agrees with me:
> http://www.google. nl/search? q=26+-+14+ %2F+2+x+3+ %2B+4%5E2
> 26 - ((14 / 2) x 3) + (4^2) = 21
> (My my, what a nice coincidence, I had to change both the ":" and "²" to
> "/" and "^2" respectively to make it work. Maybe this is the universally
> accepted solution to a non-problem. ..?)
>
> Grtz,
> Rob
> // If this mail sounds like I'm annoyed with this thread it's because I am
>
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:01:24 -0000
> > Von: "princecharming134" sossi82@...
> > An: Math4u@yahoogroups. com
> > Betreff: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?
>
> > [Brian's comment to Princecharming134: This is useful information on how
> > to make the "÷" sign. However the "/" sign has a very precise meaning
> > and implies nothing. OK, you treated ":" as "( )/( )" but is this right
> > or are you just making up stuff? Can you quote a reputable website?]
> >
> > There is a division symbol available on your PC.
> >
> > It looks like this ÷
> >
> > You can copy and paste it from this post if you wish or you may click
> > on "insert" then "symbols" then look for the division sign on
> > Microsoft word.
> >
> > For those who are not aware as to how to make the division symbol,
> > they have been using /. the problem is that this can imply
> > either a fraction or a division sign.
> >
> > My previous post I treated the : as a fraction.
> >
> > 26 minus 14 over 2 times 3 plus 4 squared.
> >
> > In which case, you must complete all operations above and below the
> > fraction before you can divide.
> > regards,
> > Princecharming134
> >
> >
>
> --
> GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
> Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx. net/de/go/ freemail
>




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Re: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?

It seems like everyone has a different definition of ":"

When you say, "everyone knows" you are implying I am a nobody. When I was in first or second grade, they taught us the story of "The Emperor's Clothes" which has an enormous impact on me.

I believe ":" means ratio such as in similar triangles a:b:c equals d:e:f. I can back this up with the following websites

http://www.pen.k12.va.us/Div/Winchester/jhhs/math/facts/symbol.html

http://www.roma.unisa.edu.au/07305/symbols.htm#Division

Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.

If you cannot find any websites to justify your definition, then you are not talking a universal language. It sounds narrow minded, but I would like everyone to speak the same language.

Let's say you define the semi colon to mean the horizontal line. In your equation, I wold not know if you wrote this super fraction first and then added the b term later or if the b term is part of the semicolon expression. I think

Princecharming

Rob van Wik

Atadricourses

are using 3 different definitions for the semi colon which are not found on the reputable websites and which I haven't heard of. The only way to change my mind is to produce reputable websites with new definitions for the semi colon.

It is difficult not to believe what we were taught in elementary school. I was taught in elementary school that everyone in Denmark rides bicycles because Denmark is flat. When I got there, it wasn't flat and I didn't see many bicycles.

Regards,

Brian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:45 AM
Subject: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?

There is a big difference between the division symbol and the colon.

Let's take the quadradic equation as an example:

-b+ (the square root of b^2 -4ac):2a

we all know that even though this formula is one big fraction, all operations above and below the fraction are done before dividing.

What would happen written like this?

-b+ (the square root of b^2 -4ac)/2a

If I read / as a division symbol, I would complete all equations under the square root and then divide it by 2a before I complete the addition/subtraction with the lonely b

regards

PC


--- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, "Rob van Wijk" <robvanwijk@...> wrote:
>
>
> Here's the recap and all solutions for these non-problems:
>
> Order of operations:
> - Plus and minus are at the same priority level (defining minus to be
> higher priority than plus is a cute hack, but since an expression such
> as "1 - 2 - 3 = ??" will still require the additional "in case of same
> precedence, eval from left to right"-rule, it's pretty pointless).
> - Same for multiply and divide.
> - In case of even the slightest possibility of doubt: just add braces,
> then you are *sure* everyone understands!!
>
> Division symbol:
> - In elementary school we were first tought to use the "colon with a dash"
> symbol. Then "just plain colon" was introduced as a "shorthand" for that.
> Later on, in highschool we switched to using a slash. Sorry, can't link
> to a website (or would you like a link to the website of my elementary
> school? :p ).
> - This mailing list is kinda bound to computers. Yes, there *is* a symbol
> for division. However (sparing you the technical details) there are quite
> severe problems with actually using it (as has been demonstrated). In the
> interest of using a solution that is easy and works universally, in comp.
> sci. we just use a slash for division. May I recommend everyone here also
> follows that convention?
>
> And, to give the long-awaited answer to the original formula:
> (note the use of "^2" instead of "²"; another case of "easy solution that
> just works")
> 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4^2
> == { exponentation }
> 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 16
> == { multiply and divide, left to right, first operator encountered }
> 26 - 7 x 3 + 16
> == { multiply and divide, left to right, second operator encountered }
> 26 - 21 + 16
> == { add and substract, left to right, first operator encountered }
> 5 + 16
> == { add and substract, left to right, second operator encountered }
> 21
>
> Google calculator agrees with me:
> http://www.google.nl/search?q=26+-+14+%2F+2+x+3+%2B+4%5E2
> 26 - ((14 / 2) x 3) + (4^2) = 21
> (My my, what a nice coincidence, I had to change both the ":" and "²" to
> "/" and "^2" respectively to make it work. Maybe this is the universally
> accepted solution to a non-problem...?)
>
> Grtz,
> Rob
> // If this mail sounds like I'm annoyed with this thread it's because I am
>
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:01:24 -0000
> > Von: "princecharming134" sossi82@...
> > An: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?
>
> > [Brian's comment to Princecharming134: This is useful information on how
> > to make the "÷" sign. However the "/" sign has a very precise meaning
> > and implies nothing. OK, you treated ":" as "( )/( )" but is this right
> > or are you just making up stuff? Can you quote a reputable website?]
> >
> > There is a division symbol available on your PC.
> >
> > It looks like this ÷
> >
> > You can copy and paste it from this post if you wish or you may click
> > on "insert" then "symbols" then look for the division sign on
> > Microsoft word.
> >
> > For those who are not aware as to how to make the division symbol,
> > they have been using /. the problem is that this can imply
> > either a fraction or a division sign.
> >
> > My previous post I treated the : as a fraction.
> >
> > 26 minus 14 over 2 times 3 plus 4 squared.
> >
> > In which case, you must complete all operations above and below the
> > fraction before you can divide.
> > regards,
> > Princecharming134
> >
> >
>
> --
> GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
> Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail
>

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[Math4u] what is 30%of 152 and 65% of 99

45.6 + 64.35 = 109.95

--- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, "xixlongvin" <xixlongvin@...> wrote:
>
> ok 26-14=12 and 2*3+4*4=22 so here's one what is 30%of 152 and 65%
> of 99. --- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, "Brian E. Jensen"
> <brianejensen@> wrote:
> >
> > OK, I learn something by making examples:
> >
> > Example, calculating left to right the correct way:
> >
> > 2 + 17 - 7 - 5 + 3 = 10
> >
> > We can do it in any order:
> >
> > 2 + 3 + 17 - 5 - 7 = 10
> >
> > We can add the negative terms and subtract them all together:
> >
> > 2 + 3 + 17 - (5 + 7) = 10
> >
> > We can perform an addition or subtraction if it comes after an
> addition:
> >
> > (2 + 17) - 7 - 5 + 3 = 10
> >
> > 2 + (17 - 7) - 5 +3 = 10
> >
> > We get the wrong answer if we perform an addition or subtraction
> that comes after a subtraction:
> >
> > 2 + 17 - (7 - 5) + 3 = 20 off by 5*2
> >
> > 2 + 17 - 7 - (5 + 3) = 4 0ff by 3*2
> >
> > The same is true of multiplication and division because it is
the
> same as adding and subtracting logs.
> >
> > Example, calculating left to right the correct way:
> >
> > 2 * 17 / 7 / 5 * 3 = 2.9143
> >
> > We can do it in any order:
> >
> > 2 * 3 * 17 / 5 / 7 = 2.9143
> >
> > 2 * 3 * 17 / (5 * 7) = 2.9143
> >
> > We can do a multiplication or division first if it doesn't
follow
> a division:
> >
> > (2 * 17 ) / 7 / 5 * 3 = 2.9143
> >
> > 2 * (17 / 7 ) / 5 * 3 = 2.9143
> >
> > We get the wrong answer if we do a multiplication or division
> first that follows a division:
> >
> > 2 * 17 / 7 / (5 * 3) = 0.3238 which is off by a factor of 3^2
> >
> > 2 * 17 / (7 / 5) * 3 = 72.857 which is off by a factor of 5^2
> >
> > So there's the requested examples. I was thinking of letting it
> drop, but I learned something making these examples. As it becomes
> clearer in my mind, it seems like nothing to argue about.
> >
> > Sorry,
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Asif Lodhi
> > To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?
> >
> >
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > On 11/28/07, Brian E. Jensen <brianejensen@> wrote:
> > > answer. As Vinaire's method avoids, if you have a plus term
> that follows a
> > > negative term, you cannot add the plus term to the negative
> term or you will
> > > be subtracting the plus term from the final result instead
of
> adding it to
> > > the final result. Similarly, if you have two minus terms
next
> to each other,
> > > you cannot perform the second subtraction first or you will
> wind up adding
> > > it to the final result instead of subtracting it from the
> final result.
> >
> > It would help the list users if you could elaborate the above
> text
> > with some examples.
> >
> > > consider this a heresy and a threat to western civilization.
> >
> > I don't think so. Research into anything is always good. I
don't
> think
> > any research is a heresy or a threat to any civilization. We
> just get
> > to learn more that way. After all, we are all here to find out
> more
> > about maths! :) It doesn't matter who's coming from where.
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Asif
> >
>



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[forwards4all] Bush vs chimpanji



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[Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?

ok 26-14=12 and 2*3+4*4=22 so here's one what is 30%of 152 and 65%
of 99. --- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, "Brian E. Jensen"
<brianejensen@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I learn something by making examples:
>
> Example, calculating left to right the correct way:
>
> 2 + 17 - 7 - 5 + 3 = 10
>
> We can do it in any order:
>
> 2 + 3 + 17 - 5 - 7 = 10
>
> We can add the negative terms and subtract them all together:
>
> 2 + 3 + 17 - (5 + 7) = 10
>
> We can perform an addition or subtraction if it comes after an
addition:
>
> (2 + 17) - 7 - 5 + 3 = 10
>
> 2 + (17 - 7) - 5 +3 = 10
>
> We get the wrong answer if we perform an addition or subtraction
that comes after a subtraction:
>
> 2 + 17 - (7 - 5) + 3 = 20 off by 5*2
>
> 2 + 17 - 7 - (5 + 3) = 4 0ff by 3*2
>
> The same is true of multiplication and division because it is the
same as adding and subtracting logs.
>
> Example, calculating left to right the correct way:
>
> 2 * 17 / 7 / 5 * 3 = 2.9143
>
> We can do it in any order:
>
> 2 * 3 * 17 / 5 / 7 = 2.9143
>
> 2 * 3 * 17 / (5 * 7) = 2.9143
>
> We can do a multiplication or division first if it doesn't follow
a division:
>
> (2 * 17 ) / 7 / 5 * 3 = 2.9143
>
> 2 * (17 / 7 ) / 5 * 3 = 2.9143
>
> We get the wrong answer if we do a multiplication or division
first that follows a division:
>
> 2 * 17 / 7 / (5 * 3) = 0.3238 which is off by a factor of 3^2
>
> 2 * 17 / (7 / 5) * 3 = 72.857 which is off by a factor of 5^2
>
> So there's the requested examples. I was thinking of letting it
drop, but I learned something making these examples. As it becomes
clearer in my mind, it seems like nothing to argue about.
>
> Sorry,
>
> Brian
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Asif Lodhi
> To: Math4u@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Math4u] Re: 26 - 14 : 2 x 3 + 4² = ?
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> On 11/28/07, Brian E. Jensen <brianejensen@...> wrote:
> > answer. As Vinaire's method avoids, if you have a plus term
that follows a
> > negative term, you cannot add the plus term to the negative
term or you will
> > be subtracting the plus term from the final result instead of
adding it to
> > the final result. Similarly, if you have two minus terms next
to each other,
> > you cannot perform the second subtraction first or you will
wind up adding
> > it to the final result instead of subtracting it from the
final result.
>
> It would help the list users if you could elaborate the above
text
> with some examples.
>
> > consider this a heresy and a threat to western civilization.
>
> I don't think so. Research into anything is always good. I don't
think
> any research is a heresy or a threat to any civilization. We
just get
> to learn more that way. After all, we are all here to find out
more
> about maths! :) It doesn't matter who's coming from where.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Asif
>



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[forwards4all] Fwd: Priceless! *****good one****



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With luv
Cifa
 


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:::|Sweet Jokes™ |::: Bravo

10 sardars and a beautiful woman were rescued from a sinking boat by a helicopter with a hanging ladder. Suddenly the choper pilot announced:

"We can take only 10 people on that ladder, one of you has to let it go!"

The woman said, "Okay men, I am gonna let it go for all of you."

All 10 sardars said togather, "BRAVO........."

 

 

 

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[forwards4all] Fwd: {funlok} : Cool Hair Styles ( Don't Miss Girls )



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[forwards4all] Computer Diagnosis,,,,,,

One day Bill complained to his friend that his elbow really hurt. His friend suggested that he go to a computer at the drug store that can diagnose anything quicker and cheaper than a doctor.
''Simply put in a sample of your urine and the computer will diagnose your problem and tell you what you can do about it. It only costs $10." Bill figured he had nothing to lose, so he filled a jar with a urine sample and went to the drug store. Finding the computer, he poured in the sample and deposited the $10. The computer started making some noise and various lights started flashing. After a brief pause out popped a small slip of paper on which was printed: "You have tennis elbow. Soak your arm in warm water. Avoid heavy lifting. It will be better in two weeks."

Later that evening while thinking how amazing this new technology was and how it would change medical science forever, he began to wonder if this machine could be fooled. He mixed together some tap water, a stool sample from his dog and urine samples from his wife and daughter. To top it off, he masturbated into the concoction. He went back to the drug store, located the machine, poured in the sample and deposited the $10. The computer again made the usual noise and printed out the following message:

"Your tap water is too hard. Get a water softener.. Your dog has worms. Get him vitamins. Your daughter is using cocaine. Put her in a rehabilitation clinic. Your wife is pregnant with twin girls. They aren't yours. Get a lawyer. And if you don't stop jerking off, your tennis elbow will never get better."





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[forwards4all] Diaries of the Dog & Cat

Diaries of the Dog & Cat

EXCERPTS FROM A DOG'S DAILY DIARY:
8:00 a.m. Oh, boy! Dog food! My favorite!
9:30 a.m. Oh, boy! A car ride! My favorite!
9:40 a.m. Oh, boy! A walk! My favorite!
10:30 a.m. Oh, boy! Getting rubbed and petted! My favorite!
11:30 a.m. Oh, boy! Dog food! My favorite!
Noon - Oh, boy! The kids! My favorite!
1:00 p.m. Oh, boy! The yard! My favorite!
4:00 p.m. Oh, boy! To the park! My favorite!
5:00 p.m. Oh, boy! Dog food! My favorite!
5:30 p.m. Oh, boy! Pretty Mums! My favorite!
6:00 p..m. Oh, boy! Playing ball! My favorite!
6:30 a.m. Oh, boy! Watching TV with my master! My favorite!
8:30 p.m Oh, boy! Sleeping in master's bed! My favorite!

EXCERPTS FROM A CAT'S DAILY DIARY:
Day 183 of My Captivity: My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furniture.
Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant. Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the stairs.
In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chair, must try this on their bed.
Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body, in an attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat I was. Hmmm, not working according to plan.
There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary confinement throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell the food. More importantly, I overheard that my confinement was due to my power of "allergies." Must learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage.
I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit. The bird, on the other hand, has got to be an informant, and speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my every move. Due to his current placement in the metal room, his safety is assured. But I can wait, it is only a matter of time ...
 


 


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:::|Sweet Jokes™ |::: Emergency!!!

Hi All,


Although this married couple enjoyed their luxury fishing boat together, it was the husband who was behind the wheel operating the boat. He was concerned about what might happen in an emergency.

So one day out on the lake he said to his wife, "Please take the wheel, dear. Pretend that I am having a heart attack. You must get the boat safely to shore."

So she drove the boat to shore. Later that evening, the wife walked into the living room where her husband was watching television.

She sat down next to him, switched the TV channel, and said to him, "Please go into the kitchen, dear. Pretend I'm having a heart attack. You must set the table, cook the dinner, and wash the dishes."

Enjoy

Puneet Narang


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