valve can be opened by timer one minute every hour. An aqueduct can
be sloped one inch every hundred feet. A grocer can sell one orange
for every three apples. A water utility can pump 100 gallons per day
for each citizen. A city can have 2 black people for every three
white people. An army can kill 20 enemy for every solder of their
own that dies. Are these ratios? Are these the same units? What
are we arguing about? Can anyone back up their opinions with
websites?
Vinaire says if both units are the same, it is a ratio and if the
units are different, it is a rate. (I said he was wrong but now I'm
not sure.) Being ignorant and sloppy, I would not argue if either
word were used. I would get the meaning from context. But I'm not
going to take one or two people's word that something is a convention
if I can't find it written by a reputable source.
Regards,
Brian
--- In Math4u@yahoogroups.com, Opher Liba <opherel@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> correct. the numbers at the numerator and the denominator "are
obliged" to bear the same units. Opher LibaMathematics Educator,
Researcher and AuthorMathematically (R), Center for Educational
EnrichmentJerusalem, Israelwww.Mathematically-JLM.com
>
> [Brian's Comment: How about some examples so that we know what we
are arguing about? A valve can be opened by timer one minute every
hour. An aqueduct can be sloped one inch every hundred feet. A
grocer can sell one orange for every three apples. A water utility
can pump 100 gallons per day for each citizen. A city can have 2
black people for every three white people. An army can kill 20 enemy
for every solder of their own that dies. Are these ratios? Are
these the same units? What are we arguing about? Can anyone back up
their opinions with websites?]
>
> To: Math4u@...: vinaire@...: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:14:02 -
0800Subject: Re: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What is the ratio of 1 hour to 1 minute? It is certainly not 1:1.
>
> Vinaire
> ----- Original Message ----From: Brian Edward Jensen
<brianejensen@...>To: Math4u@...: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:28:18
PMSubject: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations
>
> As usual I disagree with you. First website I found
http://www.mathleag ue.com/help/ ratio/ratio. htm gives ratios with
different units, defines proportion, and says rate involves time.
Second website I found http://www.math. com/school/ subject1/
lessons/S1U2L1GL .html gives ratios with different units Third
website I found http://www.purplema th.com/modules/ ratio.htm gives
ratios with different units The "Understanding" of others is often
made up nonsense. What is taught in school is not reliable. Let's get
some websites to back up information. Regards, Brian--- In
Math4u@yahoogroups. com, Vinaire <vinaire@ > wrote:>> I think that
by "Rationnel" you mean a rational number. A number and units are two
different things. A rational number is a number that can be expressed
as a ratio of two integers. > > When you compare two quantities of
the same unit you have a RATIO. When you compare two quantities of
different units you have a RATE. That is my understanding. Others may
clarify it further.> > PROPORTION simply means two equal ratios.> > I
did not understand what you meant by "et." You seem to be mixing some
other language with English.> > I did not understand what you meant
by "rapport."> > DIVISION simply means how many times you can take
one quantity out of another. It may be looked upon as repeated
subtraction. When you divide a smaller quantity (number with a unit)
by a larger number you get fractions.> > I do not understand the
situation where you would divide a number by a quantity. Can you give
me a practical example of that?> > Vinaire> > > > > > ----- Original
Message ----> From: testimprove <bonnerentree2003@ ...>> To:
Math4u@yahoogroups. com> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:20:31 PM>
Subject: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations> > Hi,> "I am not familiar with
some of the symbols and terminology you are using"> -Which symbols
and terminology I use and you are not familiar with?> your
question :> "Were you taught that way in school?"suprised me.> I'd
like before answering your question to let me know what you thing
about this way.> Badriya> > > > > > --- In Math4u@yahoogroups. com,
Vinaire <vinaire@> wrote:> >> > I asked that question because I am
not familiar with some of the symbols and terminology you are using.
Were you taught that way in school?> > > > V.> > > > ----- Original
Message ----> > From: testimprove bonnerentree2003@ ...> > To:
Math4u@yahoogroups. com> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:54:25
AM> > Subject: [Math4u] Re: 4 situations> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi> > > > "What country are you
from?"> > > > even I don't know what is the relation between this
question and the mathematic,I give an answer to your question:> > > >
I am from France> > > > I wonder if my style in writing English is
the purpose of your inquiry.> > > > I have studied Math in
French ,and I really will be happy if you point out the errors I 'll
probably make while typing questions in this wonderful forum> > > >
Badriya > > > > --- In Math4u@yahoogroups. com, Vinaire vinaire@
wrote:> > >> > > What country are you from?> > > > > > Vinaire> > > >
> > ----- Original Message ----> > > From: testimprove
bonnerentree2003@ ...> > > To: Math4u@yahoogroups. com> > > Sent:
Saturday, December 15, 2007 5:17:43 PM> > > Subject: [Math4u] 4
situations> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello,> > > > > > I'd like to
know if it is exact that any Rationnel has 4 meanings.> > > > > > ·
example the rationnel 17/6> > > > > > · a) the numbers 17 and 6 are
different units for> > > > > > example 17 liters of milk for making 6
kg of cheese> > > > > > so liters and kg are two diferent units.Here
the > > > > > > > > > > > > fraction17/6 means a proportion > > > > >
> > > > > > > · b) 17 et 6 are the same units , for example the > > >
> > > heigth of a triangle is 17mm and the side is 6 mm, > > > > > >
here the fraction 17/6 means a rapport > > > > > > · c) the number 17
is a unit and the number 6 > > > > > > > > > > > > deosn't have a
unit . For example to cut 17meters in> > > > > > > > > > > > 6 equal
pieces.Here 17/6 means a divison > > > > > > > > > > > > · d) The
number 17 doesn't have a unit and 1/6 > > > > > > mm,we have 17x1/6
so here 17/6 is a fraction of the 1/6x17> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <!--
> > > > > > #ygrp-mkp{> > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-
family:Arial; margin:14px 0px;padding: 0px 14px;}> > > #ygrp-mkp hr{>
> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}> > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{> > >
color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line-height:
122%;margin: 10px 0px;}> > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{> > > margin-bottom:
10px;}> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{> > > padding:0 0;}> > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{>
> > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}> > > -->> > > > > > > > >
> > > <!--> > > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{> > > font-family:
Arial;}> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{> > > margin:10px 0px;font-
weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height: 122%;}> > > #ygrp-sponsor
#ygrp-lc .ad{> > > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}> > > -->> > > >
> > > > > > > > <!--> > > > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-
family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}> > > #ygrp-mlmsg table
{font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}> > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input,
textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}> > > #ygrp-
mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}> > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-
height: 1.22em;}> > > #ygrp-text{> > > font-family: Georgia;> > > }>
> > #ygrp-text p{> > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}> > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{> > >
font-family: Arial;> > > clear:both;}> > > #ygrp-vitnav{> > > padding-
top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin: 0;}> > > #ygrp-
vitnav a{> > > padding:0 1px;}> > > #ygrp-actbar{> > >
clear:both;margin: 25px 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text-
align:right; }> > > #ygrp-actbar .left{> > > float:left;white-
space:nowrap; }> > > .bld{font-weight: bold;}> > > #ygrp-grft{> > >
font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%; padding:15px 0;}> > > #ygrp-ft{>
> > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%; border-top: 1px solid #666;>
> > padding:5px 0;> > > }> > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{> > > padding-
bottom: 10px;}> > > > > > #ygrp-vital{> > > background-color:
#e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}> > > #ygrp-vital
#vithd{> > > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold;
color:#333; text-transform: uppercase; }> > > #ygrp-vital ul{> > >
padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}> > > #ygrp-vital ul li{> > > list-style-
type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;> > > }> > > #ygrp-
vital ul li .ct{> > > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float:
right;width: 2em;text- align:right; padding-right: .5em;}> > > #ygrp-
vital ul li .cat{> > > font-weight: bold;}> > > #ygrp-vital a{> > >
text-decoration: none;}> > > > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{> > > text-
decoration: underline; }> > > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{> > >
color:#999;font- size:77%; }> > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{> > > padding:6px
13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px;}> > > #ygrp-
sponsor #ov ul{> > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }> > > #ygrp-sponsor
#ov li{> > > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;}>
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{> > > text-decoration: none;font-
size:130% ;}> > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{> > > background-color:
#eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{> >
> padding:8px 0;}> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{> > > font-family:
Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font-size: 100%;line-
height:122% ;}> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{> > > text-decoration: none;}
> > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{> > > text-decoration: underline; }>
> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{> > > margin:0;}> > > o{font-size: 0;}> >
> .MsoNormal{> > > margin:0 0 0 0;}> > > #ygrp-text tt{> > > font-
size:120% ;}> > > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}> > > .replbq{margin:
4;}> > > -->> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________
_________ _________ _________> > > Looking for last minute shopping
deals? > > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.
search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping> > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <!--> > > > #ygrp-mkp
{> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px
0px;padding: 0px 14px;}> > #ygrp-mkp hr{> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
> > #ygrp-mkp #hd{> > color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font-
weight:bold; line-height: 122%;margin: 10px 0px;}> > #ygrp-mkp #ads{>
> margin-bottom: 10px;}> > #ygrp-mkp .ad{> > padding:0 0;}> > #ygrp-
mkp .ad a{> > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;}> > -->> > > > >
> > > <!--> > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{> > font-family: Arial;}> >
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{> > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font-
size:78%; line-height: 122%;}> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{> >
margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}> > -->> > > > > > > > <!--> > > >
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}> > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}> >
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,
clean, sans-serif;}> > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}>
> #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;}> > #ygrp-text{> > font-family:
Georgia;> > }> > #ygrp-text p{> > margin:0 0 1em 0;}> > #ygrp-tpmsgs
{> > font-family: Arial;> > clear:both;}> > #ygrp-vitnav{> > padding-
top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin: 0;}> > #ygrp-
vitnav a{> > padding:0 1px;}> > #ygrp-actbar{> > clear:both;margin:
25px 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text- align:right; }> > #ygrp-
actbar .left{> > float:left;white- space:nowrap; }> > .bld{font-
weight: bold;}> > #ygrp-grft{> > font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%;
padding:15px 0;}> > #ygrp-ft{> > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;> > padding:5px 0;> > }> > #ygrp-mlmsg
#logo{> > padding-bottom: 10px;}> > > > #ygrp-vital{> > background-
color: #e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}> > #ygrp-
vital #vithd{> > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font-
weight:bold; color:#333; text-transform: uppercase; }> > #ygrp-vital
ul{> > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}> > #ygrp-vital ul li{> > list-style-
type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;> > }> > #ygrp-vital
ul li .ct{> > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width:
2em;text- align:right; padding-right: .5em;}> > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat
{> > font-weight: bold;}> > #ygrp-vital a{> > text-decoration: none;}
> > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{> > text-decoration: underline; }> > > >
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{> > color:#999;font- size:77%; }> > #ygrp-sponsor
#ov{> > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom:
20px;}> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{> > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }> >
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{> > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-
size: 77%;}> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{> > text-decoration: none;font-
size:130% ;}> > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{> > background-color: #eee;margin-
bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;}> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{> > padding:8px 0;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{> > font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold;
color:#628c2a; font-size: 100%;line- height:122% ;}> > #ygrp-
sponsor .ad a{> > text-decoration: none;}> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover
{> > text-decoration: underline; }> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{> >
margin:0;}> > o{font-size: 0;}> > .MsoNormal{> > margin:0 0 0 0;}> >
#ygrp-text tt{> > font-size:120% ;}> > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
> > .replbq{margin: 4;}> > -->> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________
_________ _________ _________> > Looking for last minute shopping
deals? > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.
search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping> >> > >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________
_____________ __> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >
http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs>
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
Search.
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